Now apart from the fact that Joel Loffley is still on trial for the murder of wee JJ Lawrence and therefore entitled to be presumed innocent for the moment, Nash has expressed the sense of outrage that many are feeling as details of JJ's death emerge. If ever there was a case where the death penalty could be considered, it is a case like this.
It's fair to say though that Nash's view did not meet with universal accord; Idiot/Savant from No Right Turn commented several times:
A lawyer noted:
And Danyl from the Dim Post suggested that Nash might be in the wrong party:
Now regardless on people's thoughts on the rights and wrongs of the death penalty, Stuart Nash raised an interesting point. Some crimes simply horrify, and those crimes often produce strong and emotive responses. We somehow reckon that Stuart Nash's visceral response would resonate with Waitakere Man, which probably means that his future in the New Zealand Labour Party of 2012 is somewhat limited.
A quote has been attributed to French enlightenment writer François-Marie Arouet (21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778), who was better known by the pen name Voltaire; it goes:
"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Stuart Nash had a Voltaire Moment last night. Those who were so quick to shout him down ought perhaps have reflected on those words too.
23 comments:
The good thing about free speech is is allows people to show their feelings and beliefs.
I suspect he didn't mean it literally but it's a stupid thing for an MP to say.
As for the death penalty - I wouldn't want to regress to the days when the state had the right to take a life. If it's wrong for a citizen to kill, it's wrong to kill a citizen.
You don't understand how the right to free speech works do you? It doesn't make you immune from ridicule. You really should know that by now.
" a stupid thing for an MP to say"
'Tis a pity there are not more MP's willing to say what they really feel rather than being mindful of the party line.
And I'd fully support the death penalty. Only trouble is we have a liberal judiciary hell bent on soft sentences such as Home-D.
I'm afraid TtC is right on this one. No-one was calling for his twitter privileges to be revoked. People were saying he shouldn't support the death penalty, not that he shouldn't say he supports the death penalty.
Perhaps I didn't explain myself Edward or perhaps you've missed the point (or perhaps a mix of the two); what was most amusing was the outrage of those who were upset at Nash damaging Labour's brand. Labour's reputation was deemed as far more important than whether what Nash said had any redeeming features.
If Loffley is convicted, and if he could be topped and if applications were taken to do the deed, I suspect there'd be a long queue of applicants which would be representative of both the Left and the Right in equal numbers.
@ Ele and PM - Nash is a former MP
KS - Am well aware of his past. As you alluded @0806, the underlying issue is that current MP's are more worried about the party brand than saying what really should be done with the pieces of filth who commit such crimes.
Edward the confuser missing the point, par for the course I believe
Read Rule #2 Christine. My blog; my choice of subject matter.
"if he could be topped"
Is he a shrub?
Nice piece of de-personalizing ther Keeping Stock. That's what psychopaths do, make the person an 'it', so as to divorce themselves from guilt. I'm not saying you are a psychopath, but the process is one to look out for. Others will do the same, renaming the person "scum", or "feral". Laws does it. You should take care you don't go down the same path, being a visible public figure and all.
Bunk
Edward calls himself 'Edward the Confessor'. If you want to play 'demean the man by changing his name', are you willing to be addressed as 'Spunk', or 'Flunk'?
(There are worse where that came from)
Nice selective editing Kent. Loffley was mentioned by name just five words prior to being labelled as "he"; here's the full sentence:
If Loffley is convicted, and if he could be topped and if applications were taken to do the deed, I suspect there'd be a long queue of applicants which would be representative of both the Left and the Right in equal numbers.
De-personalising? Mischief-making more likely...
" I suspect there'd be a long queue of applicants which would be representative of both the Left and the Right in equal numbers."
You are quite wrong there. The line of men clamouring to pull the trigger would be almost entirely from the Right. Read the blogs from both sides and you will see who the gun-happy, hang 'em high brigade is and what their politics are.
I found Danyl McLachlan's response the most interesting. Strange to think of Nash as a National politician in disguise. It's not a fundamental Labour value to be sympathetic to murderers, is it? I imagine Nash is in Labour for the right (and most important) reasons, probably because he agrees with their principles when it comes to jobs, education and equity.
Most people have zero sympathy for murderers, especially child killers, and would be quite happy to lock him up and literally throw away the key (I don't think anyone realistically wants to reinstate the death penalty). Nobody, barring the left-wing intellectuals in the Labour and Green party wants a soft on crime government.
That Norwegian gunman who shot all those young people on the island. He was a Right Winger. He believed himself righteous, just as the likes of PM of NZ and others who call for the death penalty do.
Good on him for having the guts to say it. Stop being so PC Keeping Stock. The perp was in court yesterday, with a t-shirt stating
'This is bad, all bad.'
How dispicable, and what an insult to poor JJ's memory. Whose side are you on?
And bring back the death penalty, well overdue. You don't actually feel sorry for the scum perp, do you?
@ Anon - let's just wait to see what the jury says. Juries are notoriously unpredictable beasts sometimes.
I most certainly do NOT support people who bash innocent children; that is evidenced by what I said in the main post:
If ever there was a case where the death penalty could be considered, it is a case like this.
My point was not to criticise Nash. As a parent, I completely understand his visceral reaction.
@ Catherine the Grape - I think you're wrong. Many of the blokes I play golf with are lifelong Labour voters from a variety of occupations; freezing workers, tradies etc. I somehow doubt thast many of them would have any difficulty dispensing justice in the circumstances outlined.
hi keeping stock, point taking, I did read the post a bit wrong.
I also agree with PM of NZ's comment, about the judicary being hell-bent on handing down ridiculously light sentences. If they had their way, they would let the crims off completely, and explain it as not being 'their fault'.
What is the National govt going to do about this? So many daft non-sentences lately, is this why we changed the government? It seems in NZ, crime does pay.
Awww Chuckles, did I offend your sensitivities? I apologise for that. Have a nice cup of tea and a lie down. And as for the 'more where that came from' if you want to "unleash the creator within" then be my guest - go nuts.
Move over, Honey.
Id have to be blind drunk
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