Friday, June 1, 2012

UPDATED: What a difference three words make...

UPDATED: Andrew Geddis from Pundit doesn't like what the Greens are doing either; Boo for my side. Boo! he says...he also notes:

There then is a broader problem with a political party so deeply involving itself in the CIR process. When this was set up, it was designed to be a way in which broader civil society can send a message to parliamentarians on issues that it thinks important enough to mobilise around. (Actually, it was designed to be a sop to public outrage with politicians that might be enough to stop them voting to change the electoral system ... but never mind that for now.)
So to now have a political party effectively bankrolling the process of forcing a CIR represents something of a distortion of its intent. (I note that Labour is somewhat implicated in this as well, albeit without apparently providing the same financial muscle.) Essentially, it is turning CIR's from expressions of the views of a self-organising general public into yet another campaign tool deployed to advance the particular interests of organised political parties that are funded through public subsidies.
Now, again I foresee responses to this. The Greens are simply providing people the opportunity to sign the petition, not paying people to support the cause. If 300,000 people then sign up to it, this itself is an indication that the public genuinely do care about the issue. 
OK. That's fine. But there's still a couple of flow on consequences from this action.
First, it becomes pretty hard to rail against the influence of money in politics when you yourself are spending money trying to influence politics. For example, the Green Party's policy proposal on campaign finance reform reads:
No person or entity can donate more than $35,000 to a political party in any twelve month period. This would need to include rules to make it illegal to split up large donations into lots smaller than $35,000 to avoid this cap.
So why exactly is giving more than $35,000 to a political party to spend on trying to achieve political outcomes A Bad Thing, whilst spending $50,000 (at least) on trying to achieve political outcomes is A Good Thing? Sure, you can maybe square the circle - there's the concern about corruption, or the like - but it becomes a tougher argument to make when you have to start from the position of justifying why you should be able to do something that others cannot.

Doing one thing whilst telling others to do something else; there's a word for that, isn't there?

******************************

Stuff carries a story (belatedly; we reported it on Tuesday!) about the Green Party recruiting people to obtain signatures for the asset sales referendum. Danya Levy's story begins thus:

The Green Party is spending $50,000 paying people to collect signatures for a citizens-initiated referendum on asset sales.
The equivalent of 10 fulltime staff have been hired for the next six to eight weeks in Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin.
The Greens also have a volunteer army of about 2000 Auckland-based "issues assistants" helping with the campaign and have budgeted a further $28,000 for related sundries. 

Unfortunately, Ms Levy has left out three crucial words in the opening line, which should read:

 The Green Party is spending $50,000 OF TAXPAYERS' MONEY paying people to collect signatures for a citizens-initiated referendum on asset sales.

You see, most reasonable people don't like their taxes being spent on political hackery. $78,000 would put another teacher in a school. $78,000 would buy a few elective operations. $78,000 would put another policeman on the streets. There are far better uses for $78,000 of your money and ours than paying people to harass pedestrians to sign a petition which is based on a mistruth in any event; no assets are being sold.

Whilst it's great that this issue has been aired in the MSM, albeit almost 72 hours after it broke in the blogosphere, those three words would have changed the whole tenor of the story and the way it was read by those stumbling across it.

And in the meantime, we understand that the Speaker has been asked to rule on whether or not this is an appropriate use of taxpayer money. We wonder what the Green Party will do if the Speaker rules that it is not.

31 comments:

gravedodger said...

With their nausesting meme of being a "party of principle" they will pay it back. Yeah right.

Sadly however, the fact they are really a party of duplicitous hypocrites, they will release a smoke screen of pathetic justification and carry on basking in their falsehood cloaked modus operandi.

Having an oral history would better allow the obfuscation to travel under the radar but alas that path is no longer available.

Great scoop KS.

robertguyton said...

Your attempts, and those of the bilious gGravedodger, to smesar the Greens, aren't resonating with the public at all. Here's what one commentator, traditionally dismissive of the Greens, has to say now:
Chris Trotter, quoted here on Keeping Stock before today, turns on a limelight beneath Russel Norman's feet, to illuminate the figure who may be the only one on the stage with any idea of whose line it is anyway:

" Only the Green’s Russel Norman shows the slightest sign of possessing the Nietzsche/Douglas spirit. He, unlike Mr Parker, will not bow down to the deficit idol. The Greens co-leader simply refuses to go on heaping sacrificial victims (beneficiaries, public servants, the sick, students) upon the corpse-strewn altar of “Returning the Government’s Books to Surplus by 2014/15”.
Given the chance, I believe Dr Norman would cast back the curtains and throw open the windows of New Zealand’s economic sick-room. With the highest expectations of his fellow New Zealanders’ recuperative powers, he shows them a vista of blue skies and green fields, and invites them to get out of bed."

robertguyton said...

"And in the meantime, we understand that the Speaker has been asked to rule on whether or not this is an appropriate use of taxpayer money. We wonder what the Green Party will do if the Speaker rules that it is not."

And we here wonder what form Keeping Stock's apology will take, if the Speaker rules that it is!

Judge Holden said...

ROFL. Wow IV2, you really are desperate aren't you? The appalling handling of the budget by English, Parata and co is really getting to you.

What's John Banks' salary? Key is keeping paying him when he should have been fired months ago. It's a fair bit more than $78k, which BTW, has been appropriated to them for this sort of activity and which the are entitled to spend. You need to get a grip.

And Gravedodger, man your bilious writing style borders on incomprehensible. Can you repost your comment in English please?

Keeping Stock said...

Oh Robert; you just can't resist trying to deflect attention away from this flagrant misuse of taxpayer finds, can you? As for your abuse of commenters here "the bilious Gravedodger"; aren't you, as a principled Green Party member and elected public official above mean-spirited stuff like that? Or has the malady of politics (which turns the most mild-mannered soul into a hyperbolic vote-grabber) affected you as well?

Keeping Stock said...

Crikey Judge; describing someone's writing style as "bilious" and "incomprehensible" is a bit rich, coming as it does from you; just sayin'...

Judge Holden said...

Just telling it like it is.

"flagrant misuse of taxpayer finds (sic)"...

What Banks' salary?

Can you point out precisely, with reference to the rules, why you think this is a "flagrant misuse of taxpayer finds"? You haven't explained that yet, you've just squawked.

robertguyton said...

Judge Holden his right. There is no substance to your claims against the Greens at all. You simply whip up conjecture, then pile more on top of that as if you are encouraged by your own rhetoric. Your apology will be sweet though.
Point of order, Mr Blogger:
Many's the time you've chastised your commenters here for inserting words into the statements of others to change the meaning but here you are, doing just that when it suits you.
As for abusing Gravedodger, it's just impossible not to, given his hysterical postings. he can take it. He's crusty.
And how muchtaxpayer money, as Judge Holden rightly asks, is being gobbled up by John Banks, who should be long gone ??
That's the crime here.

Keeping Stock said...

Pray do tell Robert: what "crime" has John Banks committed? We know what Judge Holden thinks, so this question is directed at you, Brother Guyton.

Judge Holden said...

Did you deliberately misunderstand Robert's statement? He didn't say John Banks had committed a crime - he may have that's up to the courts to determine. He's a liar though. The "crime" is that John Key is so craven he's let Banks stay on his ministerial salary despite the fact that he lied to you, and all other NZers.

Anonymous said...

Prior to the Elections Green supporters were offering inducements to Occupy squatters if they would vote for the Greens.
Paying people to "encourage" others to sign a Green-backed petition is no different.
It is only a little bit dishonest.
So what?

Judge Holden said...

Sure they were buddy, sure they were. Back to bed eh?

Anonymous said...

@Judge Holden

They sure were buddy,they sure were. Back to inducements to vote Green eh?

The Gantt Guy said...

Inv, this is, as Gravedodger said, a great scoop. Spotting the watermelons pinching money for this purpose was a good first shot, but pinging the media for carrying watermelon water (again) is a great second.

BTW, your blog your rules (that's how private property rights work) but why do you allow those types (you know who I mean) into your ace to defecate on the hearth-rug?

Oh, and last question, is Sludge Holden, Robert Guyton's retarded and chemically-unbalanced alter-ego?

Judge Holden said...

You're such a snivelling loser Gantt. Always trying to get the head prefect to protect you, in between hurling child-like abuse from behind her skirts.

Still haven't got a job or found Obama's birth certificate? ROFL. Keep trying pal.

The Gantt Guy said...

Obfuscate, obfuscate, obfuscate. Sludge, you can't stand the fact that Inv has pinged your beloved communist party for their theft of taxpayer wedge to fund their doomed* propaganda campaign, so you're flinging the filth that comes out your backside as far and wide as you can to try and detract from the point. You're an idiot, but I won't participate in your thread jacking.

Inv, who woulda thunk the Lamestream Media would be carrying water for the watermelons! Imagine the cries of outrage if the Coastal Coalition used taxpayer monies to collect signatures for their petition to repeal Key's gifting of the coastline to his mates in the apartheid party?

*doomed, because even if they manage to collect the signatures, the government will ignore the referendum as governments if both stripes have dine since the CIR mechanism was implemented!

Anonymous said...

Hey, buddy!

This is for you Judge Holden

You be the judge.

Judge Holden said...

Why are you so scatological Gantt? It's weird.

You can't even articulate why you think the Greens actions amount to "theft", neither can IV2. Find me the rule which has supposedly been broken and explain why it has. You're just squawking and getting a wee bit hysterical to boot. You need a job chief.

Anonymous said...

The Judge is silent.

What does the Jury think?

robertguyton said...

Keeping! The Gnatt guy thinks yours is a great scoop. But of what? You will have seen the shovels they used to clean up behind the horses in Victorian England - is this what Gnatt's thinking of?
I'm only saying this, KS, is because, as you well know, Judge Holden and I are two quite separate individuals and knowing that as you do, you will, like me recognise that Gnatt's instincts, his deductive powers and even his commonsense, fail him when it comes to workin' stuff out. Hence my question about the meaning he gives to 'scoop', which, as Gnatt knows, rhymes with 'poop'.

Keeping Stock said...

I've got an even better scoop planned for later in the day Robert, but you'll just have to be patient...

robertguyton said...

Crikey! I hope it's not this from Rorter Rodney!

"Rodney Hide (46) Says:
June 1st, 2012 at 9:56 am

Using taxpayers’ money to gather signatures for a referendum is worrisome enough. But the deeper concern is how the Greens use the names and addresses collected. I would suspect they are planning to use those names and addresses as a rich source for members and votes.

That, I suspect, is the real point of the referendum."

Devastating!

Anonymous said...

Do I take Judge Holden's silence as an admission that the link floored him? I will.

Keeping Stock said...

Silence is golden Anon, especially this particular silence. Long may it continue. The Greens' cheerleader from the deep south has gone quiet as well; has his "shining whit" deserted him?

Judge Holden said...

Sigh. Geddis's objections, while principled, are divorced from political reality. And they're completely different to your ill-formed position in any event (they're thought out for a start). He's not suggesting misappropriation of funds (or theft as some of the nutters here have squawked), just that the Greens shouldn't be using the CIR like this.

I disagree. It's a perfectly legitimate way of demonstrating the government is at odds with the people. If you've got it use it.

Keeping Stock said...

So how many kids could be "lifted out of poverty" with $78,000 Judge?

robertguyton said...

"So how many kids could be "lifted out of poverty" with $78,000 Judge?"

Not anywhere Near as many kids as could be lifted with the returns the assets National's flogging off, would otherwise provide. If the Greens are successful in getting the petition well distributed, as is their right, and people respond as they seem they will, the Greens action might be a tremendous benefit to New Zealand's people, Keeping Stock. Your attack on the Greens is weak and will go nowhere. However, I'm looking forward, with great eagerness, to the Speaker's ruling on this, and to your apology if he rules in favour of the Greens. have it ready, keeping Stock, 'cause I'll be askin'!

Judge Holden said...

If the Greens attempted to lift anybody out of poverty with the money appropriated to them for the purposes of supporting their Parliamentary representation you'd be all over them screeching about theft. Let's not pretend otherwise hmmmm?

Banks' salary's higher than that anyway, and we're still paying that because the PM's afraid of him.

Joel said...

The system is broken and the Green party is exploiting it. Taxpayer funds should not be used for this.

The appropriate source of funding for this activity is from party members and donations. It's just as bad as the jetsetting Gareth (Gold Elite) Hughes winging his way to thousands of dollars of flights to attend photo opportunities and protests.

Taxpayer funds should be there to make sure MPs can do their job - I'm not even that upset that they commissioned economists to research the asset sales. Research is what party funding should go to. I know they're bulk-funded and that is money taken out of a different part of their allocation, but when Green MPs are posting pictures like this: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151721054420411&set=a.10150264245675411.551428.778425410&type=1 on how misprioritised they think National's spending is, it smacks of utter hypocrisy.

All of that is before you even start to think about how much it will cost to administer the actual referendum.

Mark said...

National's policy of asset sales was known for most of 2011 and they won the election. The election was the CIR. That's democracy. Suck it up Greens .

Judge Holden said...

"The election was the CIR"

That's simply incorrect, sorry.

If you don't like CIR's start a petition to get a referendum to get them canned. I'd sign it.